ted 5000 home energy detective

[lamplight]

talk about impressive updates to the ted 1000:
http://www.theenergydetective.com/te...-overview.html

(btw i dont know if i mentioned but the company was kind enough to take my ted 1000 back and refund me as it wasn;t very useful with a grid tie. this new unit looks really neat. can;t wait to try one, and supposed to work with solar.. stilkl not out yet as they had promised but at least we have a features list and specs.

[AlphaRat]

I finally broke down and ordered a 5000 today. I am having buyer's remorse and may crawfish, but I am running a MAC at the house and the 1000 won't download to the Mac..... I am a data junkie and live by the expression - you can't change what you can't measure..... I hope to pay it out quickly w/ electrical savings.

My next order of business is a freaking radiant barrier for my hotter than hell attic. I hope that alone will save some cash - but will cost me in sweat equity.

[n3qik]

If you got 2-4 gigs plus a good CPU. Try one of the VM software. I have a Macbook Pro with 2 gig. Ran Parallels, to use the Footprints software. Ran ok, then got a netbook, that is now my server.

[JeffreyDV]

AlphaRat,

Did you get the TED 5000 with net metering option? I tried to order one the other day and they told me that model was not available yet.

[AlphaRat]

AlphaRat,

Did you get the TED 5000 with net metering option? I tried to order one the other day and they told me that model was not available yet.

Jeff, no just the plain 5000. I ordered it over the phone - the guy told me they had a few in stock but were not apparently selling them yet online. I am not solar or wind yet (probably never will be wind here w/ 1-3 mph average - except in hurricane season).....

[tallgirl]

I've not seen any updates to this thread, and had been hoping there'd be new news ...

I had the pleasure (ahem) of spending THREE HOURS on the phone with the TED 5000 folks. My client wants to monitor her inverters -- GVFX3648 and SB6000U -- so I ordered a TED 5000 with 3 CTs.

Technical support was moderately competent -- I explain to the tech support dude that the values I was telling him really were correct. The SB was selling like crazy, the GVFX was selling a bit more sanely (smaller array ...), and no, the customer was NOT using 12KW.

Here's what I learned --

1). You CAN do bi-directional monitoring, but ONLY on MTU 1. You have to set it to "Adjusted Load", then it reports watts going in both directions.

2). You CANNOT do bi-directional monitoring on grid-interactive inverters. The way the software works, it only allows MTU 1 to report bi-directional power. You have to configure it as a "Standalone" load.

3). Supposedly they are going to fix the firmware so a "Standalone" load "goes both ways". Right now, if the inverter is selling 1KW, it shows up as 1KW. If it is buying 1KW, it shows up as the same 1KW.

3). I wasn't able to get the SB to be reported properly once I managed to get MTU 1 working. It either read twice as much power as was being exported or it netted it out to the actual loads.

I don't think the Footprints software is ready for prime time with RE systems. The software doesn't have enough configuration options and the values are "adjusted" by the Gateway according to however the TED folks think they should be adjusted.

[a0128958]

... My client wants to monitor her inverters -- GVFX3648 and SB6000U...

Julie, an alternate solution that I know works well, and accurately, is to use Continental Control's WattNode unit (power transducer) in combination with a WEL. This solution, though may be more expensive - I couldn't quickly see what a TED5000 + 3 CTs + whatever else would cost.

All WattNode's are bi-directional. There is a specific unit designed for use with solar PV systems to keep cost down, that measure's both net house energy (to or from grid) and PV generated energy.

The WEL unit does all of the data collection, logging, display to charts, and remote monitoring work via web display. It's cost is $375.

The WattNode unit is $216 plus $126 for 3 split-core CTs like what's used with TED. This cost can come down if you you can use solid core CTs.

Total is $717, List. Probably more than TED solution, but certainly works rock solid.

Examples of WEL / WattNode solar PV systems monitoring solutions include:

• http://welserver.com/WEL0043/ (TX example, my residence, 8.1 KV GT, 36 Astronergy panels @ 225 W each)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0030/ (VA example, 4 KV GT, 24 Sharp panels @ 167 W each)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0032/ (City of Boulder's first net zero home; 6.8 KW GT)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0075/ (CO example, 10 KW GT, 46 panels, zero energy home)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0093/ (CO example, 10 KW GT, 52 panels, residential structure)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0109/ (CO example, 10 KW GT, 52 panels, residential structure)
• http://welserver.com/WEL00110/ (CO example, 10 KW GT, residential structure)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0183/ (CO example, 2.4 KW GT, residential structure)
• http://welserver.com/WEL0242/ (CO example, 20 KW GT, public recreation field house)

Hope this helps.

Best regards,

Bill

[rsl360]

I looked at the WattNode, as well as the TED5000. also, the EKM looked interesting. I ended up buying the TED. I think I'm happy, but there are definitely some issues. The hardware seems to be very accurate. There are some serious issues with X10 interference, and interference in general, as the TED use power line transmission to get the signal out of the breaker panel. (where the current transformers are mounted.)

I though one of the drawbacks to the wattnode was that it was not for for finding ones present consumption. No watt output. I know you can measure the interval of the pulses, but that's a fairly course measurement. The TED is great at displaying your present consumption, with resolution of a few watts.

In my opinion, the present software for the TED is a disaster, although on the surface it looks pretty good. I recently added a second sensor to my system, to measure my solar output. TED uses multiple sensors ("MTU's", up to four) and a single collection point. (the gateway) So, MTU1 is installed on lines into my house, MTU2 is on the AC side of my solar. Now you might think that when I collect the data from "MTU1", that I would get exactly that. Not so. When you add a second MTU, the output from that MTU changes what is reported for the first MTU. The makers of TED do actually say this in their instructions, but it's not crystal clear. Also, it turns out that what is reported as MTU1 for one part of the program is not what is reported for another part. Anyway, it strikes me that they have tried to kluge something together in the software and ended up with a big mess, probably because the software was not written to clear standards in the first place. But that's just speculation on my part. My guess is that they will have to fix it, because if they don't, it's going to collapse.

Another option, that I have not tried, is to run 3rd party software to collect and display the data. One of them is "It's electric". This looks pretty good and I think I'm going to try it. I'd be curious if anyone else has tried it. It does require running a small web server, but that's not to difficult.

rsl

[solar_dave]

I am fortunate that my load and generation are on completely separate 200 amp panels, however this will be short lived. The adjusted load is a bit confusing in that when they are all in the same panel they subtract the solar generation from the load values to "estimate" your real load numbers. Not played with that at all.

So far TED 5000 is fairly in line with the utility/inverters, some issues are the meter reading date varies here.

Line noise is a real problem with a TED, the broadcast frequencies is right next to the X10 range and if you have X10 this is going to be a problem. Some brands of CFL also have been reported to interfere. X10 filters may be in order.

For me the setup of the hardware was on the difficult side. It took a lot of trial and error to get the CTs set in the right directions (mis-marked), the MTU attached to a breaker that could easily talk to the gateway and finding an outlet for the gateway that was not noisy and could talk to the MTUs. I would probably estimate 8 hours of my time and about 50 combination of locations in the system to get the data out reliably.