Small windpower a scam ? Survey says SO

[dwh]

"The chart at SWW is clearly a typo since the unit does not consume any power at all"

The specs list a microprocessor control and electronic torque control...it's gotta consume something (but probably not "less than 0" ).

[icarus]

I will just reinterate my personal experience with an Air 403


It powered a full size refrigerator for almost 3 years

It still works fine

how many solar panels pay for themselves in 3 years ?

as for the Trace inverter /charger it has failed twice -- once from lightning and the current unrepaired failure

The chart at SWW is clearly a typo since the unit does not consume any power at all


The chart in my manual rates output at 30 KWHr per month in a 12 mph average
or about a KWHr per day

this is very close to my experience with the unit powering the fridge

it is a waste of money if you do not have at least a 10 mph average site

Not to pick nits,,, but because any hardware performed for three years doesn't mean it
"paid for itself". For example,, assume for the moment that it produced 1kwh/day which is close to what the "advertised" rate would be. (pretty optimistic IMHO) you would get ~ 365 kwh/year. At $.12 grid power cost would return ~ $44 worth of power,, three years would be ~ $175 worth. Given the ~$600 cost,, it is hard to say that it paid for itself.

Now I am not saying it is not valuable to you (or to someone) but "paying for itself is somewhat relative.

Now my newest PV panel, puts out 90 watts. Using my own 50% rule of net/net off grid here is it's number. 90X50%=45 watts X 6 hours average X 365 = would be 98 kwh/year,,, $12 per year at a cost of ~$250. Roughly 1/3 the power at 1/2 the cost.

Now if you figure out which is more likely to put out as advertised, AND the life cycle cost,,, my money is with the PV panel.

Tony

In both cases I use some weather assumptions. In the wind,, we are assuming (according to SW wind) a 12mph AVEARGE,, 24/7! In my Pv case I am assuming 6 hours of sun, also pretty optimistic,,,EXCEPT, in the winter I might get as low as zero on a bad day,, 2 hours on an average day,,, and a full 6 on a great day, plus a cold weather/reflection bonus). In the summer however,, because of my latitude,, I get as many as 14 hours on a perfect day,, as low a 2 on a terrible day (very rare in summer when we don't get a couple hours of net sun) and an average of better than 8.

[hillbilly]

I think that I am like a lot of folks (including Tony) who would love a small sized wind turbine, at a reasonable price of course, for just a tiny bit of extra "power diversity". I am always a fan of having backup's, and redundancies, particularly for important stuff. I think my two biggest reasons for not getting on yet are: not enough consistent winds at my site, and two, the whole idea of having a turbine with moving parts in such a harsh environment just screams "unreliable".
Obviously in the right site the amount of available power could more than offset any inconvenience of having to work on the turbine every now and then. But there's the rub, and the issue with this (or any other) "test": there are so many variable issues that affect the potential success, or failure of a wind turbine, that a "standard test" just doesn't really do justice.
Let's see this test concludes that:
-small wind turbines are unreliable, and not cost effective at low wind speeds (while mounted at low elevations)...
did I miss anything?
I suppose this "test" might be good to point out to the uneducated that wind power is not such a simple, or certain thing, but I don't know that it really says much else.
Is "small" wind right for you or for me? That's a tough question to fully answer with this test in my oppinion. I totally agree with the suggestion earlier to have a professional inspect the site, and then tailor fit that assessment to each individual and their needs.

[DavidinNica]

I wonder which were the 3 failures(or did I miss something in the report?) and I wonder how many failure there would be at a 6 m/s wind site. Where I live there are many and they are mostly far from the grid which is atrocious and more unreliable anyway.

[emsai]

I built a small VAWT (2’dia x 5.5’ ht) out of PVC, and mounted it on a floating dock, 50’ out into the NE Cape Fear River. I am about 18 miles from the ocean, and regularly get a strong W, NW, SW wind up the river. The VAWT works great, particularly with the deflectors I built to channel more wind to it. (As an aside: I also have an Apricus 30-tube solar water heater, pv-powered El Sid pump, that I installed from various components. We are completely off the grid for hot water 10 months out of the year.)

I am an amateur at this (wind turbine) stuff, as will soon be obvious. I am doing this as a hobby, but don’t mind sucking up 200-600 watts (or more) from my VAWT if I can get it. I am having trouble weaving through all the BS that is out there, especially where grid tied inverters for turbines are concerned. At the moment, I am using an Ametek 30VDC (I did day I was an amateur), and was foolish enough to buy an EnviroTechs inverter. The baby Ametek fried that inverter in two days. (I got a complete refund.) I eventually want to go to an Ametek 72 or 99 VDC, but even with the little 30 VDC, I do not know what to use for a grid tie inverter. Looking at SWEA, but still seems iffy. SMA’s Windy Boy 700u seems to be a quality inverter at the range I could use. Any suggestions?

[BB.]

But--according to this article--Rooftop Wind is wonderful:

You will also need consider potential noise of using a rooftop wind turbine. Many people agree that vertical axis turbines are quieter than other models. As noted above, placement is key to gain the most favorable winds and efficiency. If you have a pitched roof, consider placing the wind turbine in a higher location. For flat roofs, towards the edge.

Each day, hundreds of new rooftop wind turbines are installed across the country. Wind turbine manufacturers are busier than ever, and people looking for green jobs are finding them in the wind sector of the renewable energy industry, in part because of the rapid growth. By tapping into wind power, property owners are watching their electrical meters roll backwards, allowing them to save money while doing their part to save the planet.

Amazingly, consumers that installed residential rooftop wind turbines, cut their utility bills by 50-90%. Considering the fact that prices range from $5-10,000 for most systems (before tax credits and rebates), it can pay for itself in a few years.

...

At a mere 36 inches tall, the plug-in wind appliance can generate about 40 kilowatt hours each month, that’s enough to light a home using high-efficiency bulbs, said [Inventor Chad] Maglaque. And although micro-wind is nothing new, at $400 a pop, the Jellyfish’s price and simplicity make it a fresh face in the market. [Via Worldchanging]

Sounds wonderful...

Data? we don't need no data...

-Bill

[mike95490]

> Rooftop Wind is wonderful

Till the vibration shakes all the nails off your rafters, and the roof falls off.
(or the sound drives you bonkers)

[BB.]

One of the problems with these type of "Green Articles" is that they lead to conclusions like this (link from above article, to another on wind):

Proposed: A Wind Electric Co. generator system behind my house (N side), to generate 700-1000 W per month. System will store generated electricity in batteries to be used directly by my residence. As needed, I will continue to draw power from the grid.
I am in need of financing or a grant/tax credit. System has capacity to begin generating at just 3 mph
Estimated total cost of install approx. $10,000
Note: To date, no other residence within city limits of Eugene, OR has such a system. City coordidator for building permits says I am breaking new ground. I have told city and manufacturer I am eager to be a beta test site; I will invite news media and city, county, state, others to come here to collect data and do research studies.
I sincerely want this type of project to become a reality for myself and others.

But, why not--That is exactly what the Wind Electric Company says on their website.

Our Small Wind Residential Generators are rated to produce 2K to 4K watts in a 24 hour period. Our Windmill power has a cut-in wind speed of 3 mph, making it possible to create power with little wind virtually all day and night.

9' turbine with 1,000 watts peak at 16 mph... (I guess--there are no graphs that I could find).

Not quite sure that I would drop $5-$10,000 with a company that (apparently) does not know the difference between 4 kWatt and 4 kWatt*Hours...

-Bill

[jacobs]

You won't believe this......Dempster, the manufacturer of water pumping windmills for over 130 years is now offering rooftop wind. See http://www.dempsterllc.com/demp_energy_main.php

Someone did a real sales job on them!

[Solar Guppy]

http://www.windation.com/products.htm

5kw power rating, which they also claim

"Windation Wind-catch™ patent pending technologies, enables urban-building electric systems to, generate substantial amounts of clean power -- more than any other clean electricity system."

what a crock .... I'll put my 14kw of PV already install on my roof against that spinning drum any day