Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 17 of 17

Thread: Non penetrating roof mount?

  1. #11

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Quote Originally Posted by ggunn View Post
    The difference between the sun's altitude at solar noon on the winter solstice and on the summer solstice is the same no matter where you are. The center of that range is straight overhead at the equator and on the horizon at the poles, but the amount of swing is the same - 46.8 degrees.
    Only in theory, not in practice.
    The angle isn't the only thing that matters; hours of daylight change too. Nearer the Equator not so much so. Up here ... egad! Ten hours difference!
    To that end, changing the panel angle nearer the Equator does not gain you as much daily power as it does when further away.
    In fact when you get to the Equator it actually reverses; Summer daylight is slightly shorter than Winter.

    At least we have the cold temps to raise panel Voltage! Come visit the Great White North some Winter. Be sure to wear insulated everything.

    Mac's Lab panel angle calculations (good explanation of the business, but is geared for grid-tie): http://www.macslab.com/optsolar.html
    Calculate length of day where you are with this US Navy site: http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astron...duration-world
    Four 175 Watt panels, OB MX60, 232 Amp hrs, OB 3524, Honda eu2000.

    Ohm's Law: Amps = Volts / Ohms
    Power Formula: Watts = Volts * Amps

  2. #12

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Hmm, interesting thread! I did not know that the gain was only on the order of 5% annualized. I will present this information to my neighbor and see if he still wants to re-tilt his panels bi-annually. As he is off grid, the winter is the time of greatest need and he is generally flush with power in the summer. Thanks for the links!
    24V system. 8x BPSX170 and 4x Suntech 170 on Redrok trackers through Midnite Classic200. 250W of fixed homebrew panels though C40. DanB 10' Piggot axial style wind turbine through Classic 150 and Ryan-copied clipper. HuP Solar One, 845Ahr@24V Outback VFX3524. Generac 7550EXL.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Austin, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,526

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cariboocoot View Post
    Only in theory, not in practice.
    The angle isn't the only thing that matters; hours of daylight change too. Nearer the Equator not so much so. Up here ... egad! Ten hours difference!
    To that end, changing the panel angle nearer the Equator does not gain you as much daily power as it does when further away.
    In fact when you get to the Equator it actually reverses; Summer daylight is slightly shorter than Winter.

    At least we have the cold temps to raise panel Voltage! Come visit the Great White North some Winter. Be sure to wear insulated everything.

    Mac's Lab panel angle calculations (good explanation of the business, but is geared for grid-tie): http://www.macslab.com/optsolar.html
    Calculate length of day where you are with this US Navy site: http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/astron...duration-world
    Another thing to consider (and I haven't thought enough about which way it would influence the adjustable tilt vs. fixed tilt discussion) is that the higher the latitude the further around the horizon the sun travels in the summer, so it's possible that for a significant part of the time that the sun is above the horizon, its rays are striking the back of the array. For that reason, tracking arrays are more viable in the higher latitudes.

  4. #14

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Quote Originally Posted by ggunn View Post
    Another thing to consider (and I haven't thought enough about which way it would influence the adjustable tilt vs. fixed tilt discussion) is that the higher the latitude the further around the horizon the sun travels in the summer, so it's possible that for a significant part of the time that the sun is above the horizon, its rays are striking the back of the array. For that reason, tracking arrays are more viable in the higher latitudes.
    You are absolutely correct!
    In fact, in mid-June when we get our near 17 hours of daylight most of that adds nothing to the harvest potential. The sun actually rises behind the array, and it still takes 'til mid morning before the panels have any appreciable direct sunlight.

    So you see it isn't so much the change in angle of the sun (which alters panel angle by about 38 degrees no matter where just as ggunn said) as the effect that has on total daylight hours. In general, with a single fixed array you still will only get about 6 hours "equivalent good sun" out of those 16 hour days because most of the time the panels are pointing the 'wrong way'.

    If you want crazy efficiency, you'd get monocrystaline panels on a dual axis tracker connected to a grid-tie system.
    But is it worth the extra money?

    RVer's often have to spend more because they have limited roof space and less than ideal insolation much of the time. If you've got the 'roof real estate', however, it's cheaper to just add more panels even if they aren't at the most efficient angles.
    Four 175 Watt panels, OB MX60, 232 Amp hrs, OB 3524, Honda eu2000.

    Ohm's Law: Amps = Volts / Ohms
    Power Formula: Watts = Volts * Amps

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Northern CA, 2400 ft. elevation
    Posts
    1,718

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cariboocoot View Post
    If you've got the 'roof real estate', however, it's cheaper to just add more panels even if they aren't at the most efficient angles.
    So which is the bigger bang for the buck:
    Adding more panels all set to the same compromise angle as the original ones or adding additional groups of panels facing more to the east and to the west (and attached to separate charge controller inputs?) to use the early morning and late evening sun? The latter would average out your power over a longer period and would be better for handling daytime loads or more uniform battery charging.
    Sunny Boy 3000US, 18 x BP Solar 175b panels, installed 2009.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    central Vermont
    Posts
    1,162

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Quote Originally Posted by inetdog View Post
    So which is the bigger bang for the buck:
    Adding more panels all set to the same compromise angle as the original ones or adding additional groups of panels facing more to the east and to the west (and attached to separate charge controller inputs?) to use the early morning and late evening sun? The latter would average out your power over a longer period and would be better for handling daytime loads or more uniform battery charging.
    Two things: First, if you are using a PWM controller, one controller can handle two arrays. Second, for battery charging the west array can be smaller, assuming the batteries are floating by afternoon.

    --vtMaps
    4 x 235w Samsung, Outback fm60 & vfx3524 & mate, Midnite E-panel, four Interstate L16, Trimetric monitor, Honda eu2000

  7. #17

    Default Re: Non penetrating roof mount?

    Funny you should ask.

    Due to circumstances beyond my control I was unable to implement my planned solar expansion this year.

    However, the plan was to put a large (940 Watt) array facing South-East on the MX60 and then divide the small (existing 700 Watt) array into South and South-West facing segments. The function would be that the large array would supply maximum current first thing in the morning, facilitating Bulk charging and beginning the Absorb stage. By midday the South-facing panels would be producing fully, and could handle the running loads on their own (based on actual measurement of present usage). The South-West array would attempt to maintain Float level until sunlight dwindled to the point of uselessness. In this instance, the two smaller arrays would be run through PWM controllers (because of the current involved two smaller PWM controllers worked out cheaper than one large enough to handle both). The Winter consideration is easily handled in this install as the power demands are minimal. This is the "fixed tracking" which has been discussed from time to time here but so far has not been implemented by many.

    It would be possible to use PV Watts to get a general idea of the production from various arrays at different angles and see which combination added up to the best scenario for a given site. A lot of trial and error and math, but can be done.
    Four 175 Watt panels, OB MX60, 232 Amp hrs, OB 3524, Honda eu2000.

    Ohm's Law: Amps = Volts / Ohms
    Power Formula: Watts = Volts * Amps

Similar Threads

  1. Roof or pole mount?
    By Vivien in forum General Solar Power Topics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: October 25th, 2011, 5:18 PDT
  2. Frameless Roof mount systems
    By camelhump in forum General Solar Power Topics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 23rd, 2011, 6:57 PDT
  3. Solar Site analysis Roof mount OR ground mount for this property, opinions wanted.
    By rollandelliott in forum General Solar Power Topics
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: June 4th, 2011, 15:34 PDT
  4. using conduit for roof mount
    By tnhunter in forum General Solar Power Topics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 6th, 2010, 11:23 PDT
  5. Homemade roof mount help
    By Steve961 in forum PV Installers Forum - NEC, Wiring, Installation
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: February 12th, 2010, 21:11 PST

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •